[xquery-talk] xquery technology now ready?

[e-letter]

Readers,

Can xquery be used for the following scenario:

a "database" (originally from 'w3schools' web site)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!-- Edited by XMLSpy®, taken from http://www.w3schools.com-->
<?xml-stylesheet type='text/xsl" href="xstylesheetexample.xslt" ?>
<bookstore>
<book category="COOKING">
<title lang="en">Everyday Italian</title>
<author>Giada De Laurentiis</author>
<year>2005</year>
<price>30.00</price>
</book>
<book category="CHILDREN">
<title lang="en">Harry Potter</title>
<author>J K. Rowling</author>
<year>2005</year>
<price>29.99</price>
</book>
</bookstore>

Can an xhtml web page be created with a html form to select a book
title from a menu list, then display the full details of the book in
another xhtml web page, using xquery?

web page 1:
select title Harry Potter

web page 2 result:
Harry Potter
J K. Rowling
2005
29.99

What software (if any) needs to be installed for the xml documents to
be processed on a standard linux web server?

[Liam R E Quin]

On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 23:41 +0000, e-letter wrote:
> Readers,
>
> Can xquery be used for the following scenario:
[...]
> Can an xhtml web page be created with a html form to select a book
> title from a menu list, then display the full details of the book in
> another xhtml web page, using xquery?[...]

> What software (if any) needs to be installed for the xml documents to
> be processed on a standard linux web server?

For a catalogue of any size you'll probably want to send only the
matching entries to the Web browser/client, so you'll want to run XQuery
on the server.

There are maybe a dozen reasonably popular choices. I use BaseX
(Java-based) on www.fromoldbooks.org; Zorba (C++) seemed to me to be
somewhat harder to set up but then BaseX is particularly easy. There's
also an Apache module called sedna, and a stand-alone database server
called eXist; there are commercial offerings from Microsoft, Oracle,
IBM, MarkLogic and many more.

Liam

--
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
W3C staff contact for the XQuery Working Group

[e-letter]

On 10/12/2013, Liam R E Quin <***@w3.org> wrote:
>
> For a catalogue of any size you'll probably want to send only the
> matching entries to the Web browser/client, so you'll want to run XQuery
> on the server.
>

>

[Michael Kay]

>
>

[David Lee]

If cost is the driving factor and your website is small, you could consider Amazon or Google Compute.
On Amazon you can have a "t1.micro" instance at 2 cents/hour or half that if you pre-pay for a year or more.
This instance type has enough capacity for a small web server and associated technology.

It does not have enough capacity for some of the more enterprise scale XML databases but those are designed for more demanding needs.



----------------------------------------
David A. Lee
***@calldei.com
http://www.xmlsh.org

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-***@x-query.com [mailto:talk-***@x-query.com] On Behalf Of e-letter
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:16 AM
To: ***@w3.org
Cc: ***@x-query.com
Subject: Re: [xquery-talk] xquery technology now ready?

On 10/12/2013, Liam R E Quin <***@w3.org> wrote:
>
> For a catalogue of any size you'll probably want to send only the
> matching entries to the Web browser/client, so you'll want to run XQuery
> on the server.
>

>

[Christian Grün]

>

[e-letter]

On 10/12/2013, Christian Grün <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

[Michael Kay]

>
> The problem with the general lack of widespread deployment of xquery
> is a risk of disappointment similar to xforms. I would like to learn
> xquery with the knowledge that practical deployment is possible and
> cost effective; otherwise the technology doesn't seem ready yet and so
> sql database + sever script language remains the option.
>

And presumably you don't think the car's time has come yet, because travelling by bus is so much cheaper.

Michael Kay
Saxonica

[David Lee]

Xquery is quite mature and robust and there are many solutions available both as Open Source and Commercial in all price ranges from
free to very expensive. Much like the RDBMS world where you can get sqlite through Oracle ... and nearly everything in between
It is important to realize that 100% "pure XQuery" is not sufficient to build a web application, you also need a web server or application server.
Either one which comes with a pre integrated XQuery product or one which you add XQuery to.

Now the question of "cost effective" is subjective. Clearly the software has to run on something ... and that something is never free.
If you are asking specifically about hosting services where they provide all the infrastructure including the web server then you may be hard pressed to find one
that is XQuery capable. However if you host your own server (such as on Amazon where for at least the first year, there is a "Free Tier" which is sufficient for
small web servers) the out of pocket expense can be literally zero. And after the first year a reasonable web server can be run for a low price.
For example I run my personal web site along with about a dozen others including xmlsh.org on a "m1.small" instance on amazon and total cost including storage runs me about
$30 / month. This includes 100G of storage I use for my personal photo site. A t1.micro site will cost you about $15/month on demand pricing or about $8/month if you prepay.
Google Compute just made it to public so it's another choice but I have not done cost analysis on it yet. Only you can tell if this is in your budget,
but it seems reasonably low cost to me. (compare to the typical "cup of coffee" metric ... 2 - 5 cups of Starbucks / month will get you a fully functioning virtual host)

As you work up the scale of both size of web site, necessary hardware, and especially dont neglect support or more advanced services then you will have to pay something for it.
Sometimes that is paying in your time or paying someone else's time.


Also depending on what application and data you are working on, XQuery may or may not be the easiest or "best" fit for the whole enchilada.
For myself, for example, I am a very strong and vocal XQuery advocate and work for a company that produces an XQuery product,
but when I build my own web apps I frequently use XQuery at the data base layer for a multi-tier solution, much like I would use MySQL for the database.
You can, and I have personally, produced quite good web applications 100% in XQuery ... but it isn't the only reasonable route to take.
Another reasonable route is to use an app server like Tomcat or JBoss and then use XQuery "on the back end" to handle the database and heavy transformation,
but leave the presentation layer to the application server.

The choice is yours. The solutions are plentiful ... it's a rainbow of solutions not black & white. What approach works "best" or even "reasonably good" for you may vary dramatically from
others or even yourself.

But I can assert with reasonable authority that there is a wide variety of quality XQuery implementations to choose from in the price range from Budget to Gourmet.
And *unlike* XForms ... XQuery does not have to solve the GUI problem. It can, but It can also be used in conjunction with other front end tools, or can be used all by itself (in a XQuery implementation which supports application servers).




----------------------------------------
David A. Lee
***@calldei.com
http://www.xmlsh.org

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-***@x-query.com [mailto:talk-***@x-query.com] On Behalf Of e-letter
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 9:28 AM
To: Christian Grün
Cc: Liam Quin; ***@x-query.com
Subject: Re: [xquery-talk] xquery technology now ready?

On 10/12/2013, Christian Grün <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

[e-letter]

On 11/12/2013, David Lee <***@calldei.com> wrote:
>
> But I can assert with reasonable authority that there is a wide variety of
> quality XQuery implementations to choose from in the price range from Budget
> to Gourmet.
> And *unlike* XForms ... XQuery does not have to solve the GUI problem. It
> can, but It can also be used in conjunction with other front end tools, or
> can be used all by itself (in a XQuery implementation which supports
> application servers).
>

Useful opinion, thanks, but your comment prompts the following
personal conclusion: xforms was/is hampered by insufficient web
browser support; xquery by insufficient web server (standard hosting
supplier) support.

[David Lee]

==========
Useful opinion, thanks, but your comment prompts the following
personal conclusion: xforms was/is hampered by insufficient web
browser support; xquery by insufficient web server (standard hosting
supplier) support.
===========


Not all technologies get adopted by everyone. .
I dont know exactly (but I do know *roughly*) by what you mean by "standard hosting supplier" - ie. those that sell the cheapest "web site hosting" possible to the most people.
I dont agree that means "hampered" ... it just means " vastly availble for nearly nothing" and if that is your most important criteria go for it.
It is generally a circular problem ...
If you want a *free xquery* hosting provider you can get one today from Amazon for 1 year using their free tier support.
After that ... if $2/month vs $7/month is your most important concern then xquery isnt for you.

Browser support is a problem for XForms (although I belive there are versions which dont require browser support)
Browser support is a non-issue for XQuery - it is browser agnostic.
If you want the absolutely dirt cheapest "solution" go with a free service like most major providers will give you for free (bloggger etc).
you wont get XQuery or even mysql or PHP but you will get a "web site" for "free" (typically "free" means your web site will have ads on it).

If cost is your major concern and $2/month vs $7/month is the key factor in your decision on what technology you want to learn and use then go with the cheapest.
But making claims about technology viability by quoting the bare minimum low end just isn't something you will get great resounding agreement with on this list.
XQuery can be had for free.
Convincing budget low end web hosting providers to provide it may take a while if ever.
Convincing Browser vendors to build it into their browser (let alone XSLT 2.0 or 3.0 ) ... well I am not holding my breath.
but none of this has to do with the maturity or quality of technology.

As Michael Key said so elegantly, I will paraphrase, if your #1 issue is cost, ride the bus. Or walk for that matter.

There is nothing wrong with that, but you will have a hard time convincing car drivers and manufacturers that means that cars are not viable.

----------------------------------------
David A. Lee
***@calldei.com
http://www.xmlsh.org

[e-letter]

On 11/12/2013, David Lee <***@calldei.com> wrote:
> If you want a *free xquery* hosting provider you can get one today from
> Amazon for 1 year using their free tier support.

A brief look at amazon suggests that I could (assuming correct
comprehension!) create a linux web server virtual image and export to
amazon to host and make public, free for a year. It is during the
creation of the linux web server image that the necessary xquery
server software can be installed.

> Convincing budget low end web hosting providers to provide it may take a
> while if ever.

I don't understand this (being ignorant of the web host market,
admittedly). If a gnu gpl xquery server software exists why would they
be reluctant to add this to their service if a customer demands and
pays for it?

>
> As Michael Key said so elegantly, I will paraphrase, if your #1 issue is
> cost, ride the bus. Or walk for that matter.
>

Consider the question of cost as being "devil's advocate"; it seems
that the price of using xquery is at least 3x a more prevalent sql &
server script system, but of course there's more to decision making
than "ticket price" comparisons...Anyway this has proven to be a
useful discussion and fascinating to learn that amazon is more than a
mere book-seller!

[Dirk Kirsten]

>> Convincing budget low end web hosting providers to provide it may take a
>> while if ever.
>
> I don't understand this (being ignorant of the web host market,
> admittedly). If a gnu gpl xquery server software exists why would they
> be reluctant to add this to their service if a customer demands and
> pays for it?

I guess because you are discussing 2$ web hosts. And if you pay 2$, do
you really expect any service at all? So you would need to have an
actual human being (who is paid, and I guess a bit more than 2 dollars
an hour) to do something for you.
I am sure if you are willing to pay a reasonable price for it, most web
hosts will install all kinds of software for you. It is just not the
price range you are talking about.

Cheers,
Dirk

--
Dirk Kirsten, BaseX GmbH, http://basex.org
|-- Firmensitz: Blarerstrasse 56, 78462 Konstanz
|-- Registergericht Freiburg, HRB: 708285, Geschäftsführer:
| Dr. Christian Grün, Dr. Alexander Holupirek, Michael Seiferle
`-- Phone: [phone], Fax: [phone]

[Liam R E Quin]

On Wed, 2013-12-11 at 20:01 +0000, e-letter wrote:

> I don't understand this (being ignorant of the web host market,
> admittedly). If a gnu gpl xquery server software exists why would they
> be reluctant to add this to their service if a customer demands and
> pays for it?

The most popular ones are written in Java, and use more memory and CPU
than the Web hosting companies want to allocate to a shared host. There
also tends to be a distrust of Java-based software in Free software
communities.

> Consider the question of cost as being "devil's advocate"; it seems
> that the price of using xquery is at least 3x a more prevalent sql &
> server script system,

I don't think that's necessarily true. For example, apache with zorba
and PHP is a Java-free zero-dollar open-source alternative.

You can also run XQuery systems alongside MySQL quite happily, accessing
relational data as well as XML hierarchical data from XQuery.

Liam

--
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

[Adam Retter]

I would be happy to configure a Amazon EC2 instance running eXist for you,
if that helps?
On 11 Dec 2013 20:03, "e-letter" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/12/2013, David Lee <***@calldei.com> wrote:
> > If you want a *free xquery* hosting provider you can get one today from
> > Amazon for 1 year using their free tier support.
>
> A brief look at amazon suggests that I could (assuming correct
> comprehension!) create a linux web server virtual image and export to
> amazon to host and make public, free for a year. It is during the
> creation of the linux web server image that the necessary xquery
> server software can be installed.
>
> > Convincing budget low end web hosting providers to provide it may take a
> > while if ever.
>
> I don't understand this (being ignorant of the web host market,
> admittedly). If a gnu gpl xquery server software exists why would they
> be reluctant to add this to their service if a customer demands and
> pays for it?
>
> >
> > As Michael Key said so elegantly, I will paraphrase, if your #1 issue is
> > cost, ride the bus. Or walk for that matter.
> >
>
> Consider the question of cost as being "devil's advocate"; it seems
> that the price of using xquery is at least 3x a more prevalent sql &
> server script system, but of course there's more to decision making
> than "ticket price" comparisons...Anyway this has proven to be a
> useful discussion and fascinating to learn that amazon is more than a
> mere book-seller!
> _______________________________________________
> ***@x-query.com
> http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk
>

[e-letter]

On 11/12/2013, Adam Retter <***@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I would be happy to configure a Amazon EC2 instance running eXist for you,
> if that helps?

Thank you for the offer, but for now am still undecided what to do! :)

[Misztur, Chris]

And I'll be happy to help you work through your solution. What kind of app did you have in mind?

Adam,
Do 1 for me too ;)
Or maybe some docs out of the ordinary.



On Dec 11, 2013, at 4:29 PM, "Adam Retter" <***@googlemail.com<mailto:***@googlemail.com>> wrote:


I would be happy to configure a Amazon EC2 instance running eXist for you, if that helps?

On 11 Dec 2013 20:03, "e-letter" <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 11/12/2013, David Lee <***@calldei.com<mailto:***@calldei.com>> wrote:
> If you want a *free xquery* hosting provider you can get one today from
> Amazon for 1 year using their free tier support.

A brief look at amazon suggests that I could (assuming correct
comprehension!) create a linux web server virtual image and export to
amazon to host and make public, free for a year. It is during the
creation of the linux web server image that the necessary xquery
server software can be installed.

> Convincing budget low end web hosting providers to provide it may take a
> while if ever.

I don't understand this (being ignorant of the web host market,
admittedly). If a gnu gpl xquery server software exists why would they
be reluctant to add this to their service if a customer demands and
pays for it?

>
> As Michael Key said so elegantly, I will paraphrase, if your #1 issue is
> cost, ride the bus. Or walk for that matter.
>

Consider the question of cost as being "devil's advocate"; it seems
that the price of using xquery is at least 3x a more prevalent sql &
server script system, but of course there's more to decision making
than "ticket price" comparisons...Anyway this has proven to be a
useful discussion and fascinating to learn that amazon is more than a
mere book-seller!
_______________________________________________
***@x-query.com<mailto:***@x-query.com>
http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk
_______________________________________________
***@x-query.com<mailto:***@x-query.com>
http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk

________________________________

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[e-letter]

On 11/12/2013, Misztur, Chris <***@macleanfogg.com> wrote:
> And I'll be happy to help you work through your solution. What kind of app
> did you have in mind?
>

My scenario is barely an application ;)

I want to be able to use the example list of books in the web site
tutorial 'w3schools' and create a demonstration of xquery.

The desired result is an xhtml web page that features a simple menu
list using an html form element 'select'. A user selects a book title,
then further meta-data (author, publisher etc. that is stored as the
xml document "database") appears in another web page.

So far, 'jedit' with the xml plug-ins (xquery, xml, xslt) activated
has been used and an xhtml page was created by the transformation
function in jedit (proving my rudimentary understanding of xpath ;) )

Originally I thought that xquery could be used like xsl; open an xml
file using a web browser that refers to the xslt file that also refers
to an xq file and voila, result! Unfortunately not; once I realised
xquery needs a server, that led me here. So much next step is to try
the various software mentioned in this thread and find out which will
be the easiest for me to install and use on my old computer.

Will ask again nearer the time; thanks very much!

[Adam Retter]

How about using http://xqib.org/

On 11 December 2013 23:08, e-letter <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/12/2013, Misztur, Chris <***@macleanfogg.com> wrote:
>> And I'll be happy to help you work through your solution. What kind of app
>> did you have in mind?
>>
>
> My scenario is barely an application ;)
>
> I want to be able to use the example list of books in the web site
> tutorial 'w3schools' and create a demonstration of xquery.
>
> The desired result is an xhtml web page that features a simple menu
> list using an html form element 'select'. A user selects a book title,
> then further meta-data (author, publisher etc. that is stored as the
> xml document "database") appears in another web page.
>
> So far, 'jedit' with the xml plug-ins (xquery, xml, xslt) activated
> has been used and an xhtml page was created by the transformation
> function in jedit (proving my rudimentary understanding of xpath ;) )
>
> Originally I thought that xquery could be used like xsl; open an xml
> file using a web browser that refers to the xslt file that also refers
> to an xq file and voila, result! Unfortunately not; once I realised
> xquery needs a server, that led me here. So much next step is to try
> the various software mentioned in this thread and find out which will
> be the easiest for me to install and use on my old computer.
>
> Will ask again nearer the time; thanks very much!



--
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk

[Liam R E Quin]

On Wed, 2013-12-11 at 23:08 +0000, e-letter wrote:


> [...]

> once I realised
> xquery needs a server,

No, it doesn't.

There are several components:
1. an XQuery engine; some of these can run directly on an XML file with
no database; others require a database, and some can work either way.

2. A Web server, for hosting the Web pages - this could run on your own
computer if necessary, e.g. with a Web server like Abyss or with an
XQuery engine such as eXist or BaseX which include their own Web server.

3. A remote hosting system (e.g. a Linux-based server): hardware
(possibly virtual) to run the Web server software if you want other
people to see it all round the globe.

In this regard the needs for XQuery are very similar to doing "LAMP"
development with Apache and MySQL.

For example, the zero-dollar Abyss personal Web server is fine for
development, or if you already have Apache running on your ipad or
laptop or 'phone or whatever, that's fine too.

Saxon and BaseX (both Java-based) can run locally on XML files; BaseX
can also use its own database, and can be called from PHP. The
collection of thumbnail images on my own Web site -
http://www.fromoldbooks.org/ - is currently produced with BaseX, as is
the search page, using a database; some of my other pages are done with
a different XQuery engine (one called Qizx) just because I've never
taken the half hour or so it might need to switch them over.

eXist and BaseX can provide a Web server and a forest store; you can
load collections of trees from XML documents and then use XQuery to
query them.

There are lots of other XQuery implementations - these are just a few.

My Linux system also came with a database called Virtuoso that
implements SQL, SPARQL and XQuery, although I haven't tried it.

Liam

--
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

[James Fuller]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM, e-letter <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Will ask again nearer the time; thanks very much!
>

As you can see, there are many helpful and friendly people here willing to
pitch in when someone want to learn more.

I thought I would mention that learning xquery has benefits beyond just
your current app dev as in XQuery is perhaps the easiest functional
programming language to learn and once you learn the fundamentals of
programming with fp, you can apply it to other languages.

Without sounding too over the top, learning XQuery and functional
programming idioms that go along with it, will make you a better programmer
in any programming language.

good luck, Jim Fuller

[David Lee]

To pile one more on top of Jim.
My personal favorite way to "play with XQuery" is (of course!) with xmlsh, free and open source
http://ww.xmlsh.org

Its a "shell" who's expression language is XQuery and who's variables are XDM values (anything XQuery can produce).
It comes as a command line "shell" as well as a primative GUI (xmlshui)

Truely excellent for a quick start at learning XQuery ...

And yes, you *can* embed it into a tomcat server and run web pages. In fact you can do a "1 line web server" (very primative) with its buitlin http server support.

http://www.xmlsh.org/CommandHttpserver



Under the hood , the XQuery and XSLT parts come from the excellent open source XQuery and XSLT parser, Saxon


----------------------------------------
David A. Lee
***@calldei.com<mailto:***@calldei.com>
http://www.xmlsh.org

From: James Fuller [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 3:46 AM
To: e-letter
Cc: Misztur, Chris; ***@x-query.com; Liam Quin; Christian GrÃŒn; Adam Retter; David Lee
Subject: Re: [xquery-talk] xquery technology now ready?

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:08 AM, e-letter <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
Will ask again nearer the time; thanks very much!

As you can see, there are many helpful and friendly people here willing to pitch in when someone want to learn more.

I thought I would mention that learning xquery has benefits beyond just your current app dev as in XQuery is perhaps the easiest functional programming language to learn and once you learn the fundamentals of programming with fp, you can apply it to other languages.

Without sounding too over the top, learning XQuery and functional programming idioms that go along with it, will make you a better programmer in any programming language.

good luck, Jim Fuller

[G. Ken Holman]

At 2013-12-11 22:26 +0000, Adam Retter wrote:
>I would be happy to configure a Amazon EC2 instance running eXist
>for you, if that helps?

I'm an EC2 user and I would find a summary list of instructions very
useful, as would I'm sure many others on this list.

Could I impose on you, please, to itemize the instructions for all to follow?

And thinking about this from a student's perspective, can anyone on
this list identify publicly-available sources of XML content to load
up on the eXist instance so that when the itemized instructions are
complete that anyone would be able to run example scripts against the
installed dataset?

I'll contribute some sample scripts once I see what data is available
to upload onto the server.

Thank you, Adam!

. . . . . . . . Ken


--
Public XSLT, XSL-FO, UBL & code list classes: Melbourne, AU May 2014 |
Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training |
Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/udemy.htm |
Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/q/ |
G. Ken Holman mailto:***@CraneSoftwrights.com |
Google+ profile: https://plus.google.com/116832879756988317389/about |
Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal |

[Misztur, Chris]

I got an instance of eXist running on nitrous.io. Nothing out of the ordinary. Headless installation and then start "bin/startup.sh &" on a 'screens' session to prevent it from dying.

Could use the Shakespeare data in eXist.

-c

________________________________________
From: talk-***@x-query.com [talk-***@x-query.com] on behalf of G. Ken Holman [***@cranesoftwrights.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:34 PM
To: ***@x-query.com
Subject: Re: [xquery-talk] xquery technology now ready?

At 2013-12-11 22:26 +0000, Adam Retter wrote:
>I would be happy to configure a Amazon EC2 instance running eXist
>for you, if that helps?

I'm an EC2 user and I would find a summary list of instructions very
useful, as would I'm sure many others on this list.

Could I impose on you, please, to itemize the instructions for all to follow?

And thinking about this from a student's perspective, can anyone on
this list identify publicly-available sources of XML content to load
up on the eXist instance so that when the itemized instructions are
complete that anyone would be able to run example scripts against the
installed dataset?

I'll contribute some sample scripts once I see what data is available
to upload onto the server.

Thank you, Adam!

. . . . . . . . Ken


--
Public XSLT, XSL-FO, UBL & code list classes: Melbourne, AU May 2014 |
Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training |
Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/udemy.htm |
Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/q/ |
G. Ken Holman mailto:***@CraneSoftwrights.com |
Google+ profile: https://plus.google.com/116832879756988317389/about |
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[Michael Sokolov]

On 12/11/2013 5:34 PM, G. Ken Holman wrote:
> At 2013-12-11 22:26 +0000, Adam Retter wrote:
>> I would be happy to configure a Amazon EC2 instance running eXist for
>> you, if that helps?
>
> I'm an EC2 user and I would find a summary list of instructions very
> useful, as would I'm sure many others on this list.
>
> Could I impose on you, please, to itemize the instructions for all to
> follow?
>
> And thinking about this from a student's perspective, can anyone on
> this list identify publicly-available sources of XML content to load
> up on the eXist instance so that when the itemized instructions are
> complete that anyone would be able to run example scripts against the
> installed dataset?
I've been using the Shakespeare from here
http://www.ibiblio.org/xml/examples/shakespeare/ for my Lux demos No
attributes, though.

-Mike

[Eric Bloch]

On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:05 PM, Michael Sokolov <***@safaribooksonline.com<mailto:***@safaribooksonline.com>> wrote:

On 12/11/2013 5:34 PM, G. Ken Holman wrote:
At 2013-12-11 22:26 +0000, Adam Retter wrote:
I would be happy to configure a Amazon EC2 instance running eXist for you, if that helps?

I'm an EC2 user and I would find a summary list of instructions very useful, as would I'm sure many others on this list.

Could I impose on you, please, to itemize the instructions for all to follow?

And thinking about this from a student's perspective, can anyone on this list identify publicly-available sources of XML content to load up on the eXist instance so that when the itemized instructions are complete that anyone would be able to run example scripts against the installed dataset?
I've been using the Shakespeare from here http://www.ibiblio.org/xml/examples/shakespeare/ for my Lux demos No attributes, though.


http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9542283/sample-xml-databases/9542746#9542746

[David Lee]

>>> Anyway this has proven to be a
useful discussion and fascinating to learn that amazon is more than a
mere book-seller!
------------

To spread the Koolaid ... Amazon .. or lets just say AWS (Amazon Web Services, a subsidary of Amazon.com) is *fricken amazing*

I could talk forever .. but to get started JUST DO THIS
Get yourself an AWS Account and start using their FREE Tier ...

http://aws.amazon.com/free/


Compute by the hour
Disk space by the GB/month
Queues, Messaging, NoSQL Engines, Managed Databases, Workflow systems,
( skipp forward a million ) AND WITH THAT you get MORE !!!


Just saying ... whether you end up using it or not, you want to learn about AWS

-David

[Misztur, Chris]

For me it is what fits right now and xquery fits perfectly.

Can you describe practical and cost effective?

-c





On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:31 AM, "e-letter" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/12/2013, Christian Grün <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>

[e-letter]

On 11/12/2013, Misztur, Chris <***@macleanfogg.com> wrote:
> For me it is what fits right now and xquery fits perfectly.
>
> Can you describe practical and cost effective?
>

A web host service provider has advertised a service less than US$ 2
per month, which features the range standard web host tools, in this
case an sql database and web server script language

So being technology agnostic, whilst xquery and xml technologies are
interesting per se for a novice who has negligible prior knowledge,
learning sql and php would suffice for the personal objective,
creating a simple web site where information in a database can be
viewed in a web page. Xforms is a great concept, but if it doesn't
work with opera, or firefox or another w3-compliant browser, its
advantage is lost.

Excuse my ignorance of the web host market, but if it was possible for
a customer to say to a US$ 2 supplier "please install [xquery web
server software name] and I'll use your service", I'd sign up and be
more likely to learn xquery.

[Misztur, Chris]

I would say the learning curve for MySQL and PHP would be much higher than learning XQuery.

Whichever way you go, you'll still need to learn HTML, JavaScript, JQuery and other JS frameworks to build a pretty site.

-c


Chris Misztur | Engineer, Business Systems
1000 Allanson Rd, Mundelein, IL 60060 (Map)
Office [phone] | Cell [phone]
www.macleanfoggcs.com

-----Original Message-----
From: e-letter [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:12 AM
To: Misztur, Chris
Cc: Christian Grün; Liam Quin; ***@x-query.com
Subject: Re: [xquery-talk] xquery technology now ready?

On 11/12/2013, Misztur, Chris <***@macleanfogg.com> wrote:
> For me it is what fits right now and xquery fits perfectly.
>
> Can you describe practical and cost effective?
>

A web host service provider has advertised a service less than US$ 2 per month, which features the range standard web host tools, in this case an sql database and web server script language

So being technology agnostic, whilst xquery and xml technologies are interesting per se for a novice who has negligible prior knowledge, learning sql and php would suffice for the personal objective, creating a simple web site where information in a database can be viewed in a web page. Xforms is a great concept, but if it doesn't work with opera, or firefox or another w3-compliant browser, its advantage is lost.

Excuse my ignorance of the web host market, but if it was possible for a customer to say to a US$ 2 supplier "please install [xquery web server software name] and I'll use your service", I'd sign up and be more likely to learn xquery.

[Adam Retter]

Amazon EC2 have a free tier for a year and eXist can be installed on there
and runs fine if your database is not too big.
On 10 Dec 2013 14:18, "e-letter" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/12/2013, Liam R E Quin <***@w3.org> wrote:
> >
> > For a catalogue of any size you'll probably want to send only the
> > matching entries to the Web browser/client, so you'll want to run XQuery
> > on the server.
> >
>

[Benito van der Zander]

If you have a project on sourceforge.net, you can host a site with
arbitrary cgi for FREE and forever there.
I have a xquery engine running in the project web space and it works fine.
(should also work on the user web space)

On the German uberspace.de, you can host arbitrary cgi programs for 1EUR
/ month. (which is very expensive
in comparison, but you get a lot of space and traffic)

Finally I have heard iwrahost.com allows you to use arbitrary cgi
programs for $0.1 / month




Am 11.12.2013 19:02, schrieb Adam Retter:
>
> Amazon EC2 have a free tier for a year and eXist can be installed on
> there and runs fine if your database is not too big.
>
> On 10 Dec 2013 14:18, "e-letter" <***@gmail.com
> <mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 10/12/2013, Liam R E Quin <***@w3.org <mailto:***@w3.org>> wrote:
> >
> > For a catalogue of any size you'll probably want to send only the
> > matching entries to the Web browser/client, so you'll want to
> run XQuery
> > on the server.
> >
>

[Michael Kay]

XQuery can certainly be used for this, but it won't do the whole job. You also need some kind of framework that accepts HTTP requests from the browser and invokes the necessary query with the right parameters. An example of such a framework which we use within Saxonica is servlex (servlex.net).

Michael Kay
Saxonica


On 9 Dec 2013, at 23:41, e-letter <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Readers,
>
> Can xquery be used for the following scenario:
>
> a "database" (originally from 'w3schools' web site)
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
> <!-- Edited by XMLSpy®, taken from http://www.w3schools.com-->
> <?xml-stylesheet type='text/xsl" href="xstylesheetexample.xslt" ?>
> <bookstore>
> <book category="COOKING">
> <title lang="en">Everyday Italian</title>
> <author>Giada De Laurentiis</author>
> <year>2005</year>
> <price>30.00</price>
> </book>
> <book category="CHILDREN">
> <title lang="en">Harry Potter</title>
> <author>J K. Rowling</author>
> <year>2005</year>
> <price>29.99</price>
> </book>
> </bookstore>
>
> Can an xhtml web page be created with a html form to select a book
> title from a menu list, then display the full details of the book in
> another xhtml web page, using xquery?
>
> web page 1:
> select title Harry Potter
>
> web page 2 result:
> Harry Potter
> J K. Rowling
> 2005
> 29.99
>
> What software (if any) needs to be installed for the xml documents to
> be processed on a standard linux web server?
>
> _______________________________________________
> ***@x-query.com
> http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk

[Michael Sokolov]

On 12/9/2013 6:41 PM, e-letter wrote:
>
> Can an xhtml web page be created with a html form to select a book
> title from a menu list, then display the full details of the book in
> another xhtml web page, using xquery?
>
You could use Lux, which is based on XQuery and comes with an
application server, search index, and data store: http://luxdb.org

-Mike

[Adam Retter]

Yes, that is absolutely possible using XQuery. Normally you also need
to have some sort of web-server in there that is executing your XQuery
and generating XHTML. There are several available, the most popular
that I am aware of are:

http://www.exist-db.org
http://www.basex.org
http://www.28msec.com
http://www.marklogic.com

Disclaimer - I am a contributor to eXist-db.
eXist-db and BaseX are both open source.
28msec is a commercial cloud offering and Marklogic is a commercial offering.

On 10 December 2013 13:03, Michael Sokolov
<***@safaribooksonline.com> wrote:
> On 12/9/2013 6:41 PM, e-letter wrote:
>>
>>
>> Can an xhtml web page be created with a html form to select a book
>> title from a menu list, then display the full details of the book in
>> another xhtml web page, using xquery?
>>
> You could use Lux, which is based on XQuery and comes with an application
> server, search index, and data store: http://luxdb.org
>
> -Mike
> _______________________________________________
> ***@x-query.com
> http://x-query.com/mailman/listinfo/talk



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Adam Retter

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